Rick:

Hello, and welcome to Northwest Philly Neighbors.

I'm Rick Mohr, and my guest is Shameka Sawyer.

She runs The 5 Shorts Project, where she coaches people through all the steps of making a short film, in six months without quitting their day jobs.

She's really everything you'd want in a coach, and she tells stories as we hear about the whole process, from writing the script to planning the shots, directing the actors, editing the final film, and plenty more in between.

We'll hear how to find actors, crew, and locations with no budget, why you should always cast two or three actors in your head for each role, how moving the camera draws the audience into a character, and how if you don't keep your actors happy, you'll see it in their faces in the final film.

She also tells about finding her way into film by starting college in her thirties, graduating from Community College of Philadelphia and University of Pennsylvania all while raising a family.

Before we start, here's a big thank you to Mt Airy Nexus where we recorded this episode.

It's a beautiful co-working space in the heart of Mt Airy.

You can sign up to use a desk or an office or a conference room there and join their friendly community.

Their website is in the show notes.

Take a look.

Now here's Shameka Sawyer.

So for people who aren't familiar with The 5 Shorts Project, could you just say a little bit about what it is?

Shameka Sawyer:

Sure.

So The 5 Shorts Project assists individuals with creating short films or now short plays from development to distribution.

And what that means is we walk each participant through the entire process.

So from helping you to edit your script to finding cast and crew for your production to shooting the production to editing.

And then we host like a red carpet premiere screening for the films.

And this year, we'll just put on the stage plays at a local theater here in Philadelphia.

It's a lot, but it's a ton of fun.

Rick:

What were your goals in setting it up?

Shameka Sawyer:

When I originally started, it was more of a thing of, let me just get together with four other people who would like to make films and let us just make some films together.

And we'll just have a screening.

So it's more of a hobby than anything else.

As time went on, more individuals came up to me and said, hey, you know, I would love to be a part of this, but I don't know where to start, what to do.

Do you help people through the process?

So the more I got those questions, I just decided, well, hey, I can actually help people through this entire process.

And then it just transitioned over to helping people make films.

Rick:

And a lot of your filmmakers have been women and people of color.

Is that a specific goal?

Shameka Sawyer:

It actually is not.

The project is open to anyone who wants to make a film or a short play.

It just so happens as majority women and majority women of color that are a part of the project.

But no, it's open to everyone.

Rick:

Well, it's nice to get those voices out into the world.

Shameka Sawyer:

Right.

It really is.

It's very important.

Especially when you're independent.

Because you control the narrative of the story.

No one else is writing your story for you.

You're actually doing this yourself.

And a lot of the participants may not have access to resources to actually go to college for this.

And that takes time.

And a lot of the participants are adults, working adults with children.

So they're looking for something that's more convenient and gives them the opportunity to follow that dream of finally writing and directing a film without the constraints of, I need to have a GPA of 4.0.

You know, or other classes you need to take in college that don't really match up with what you would like to study.

So this way, they just get to focus on exactly what they want to do.

Rick:

Well, and I mean, most filmmakers are white men.

Has that been changing recently or?

Shameka Sawyer:

It's becoming better.

I will say at the independent level, it's becoming better because of the access to technology.

Technology has changed quite a bit and made the filmmaking process more accessible to those who didn't have access to it before or just didn't know where to start.

Now, you can go on YouTube and learn pretty much anything, especially about film and you can shoot films on your iPhone and you know, so it makes it easier for more diverse voices to get heard in this industry.

Rick:

Yeah, but maybe not so much in the higher echelons.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, I mean, the higher echelons is still that stigma that diverse films will do as well at the box office.

Even with the success of Black Panther and Hidden Figures and films like that, they still had a pretty huge support system, right?

You have Disney, you have Marvel.

So you have these big companies backing those films.

So when you start looking at smaller films, even like Moonlight, it's not as big of a push.

I guess it's just that stigma that those films won't do as well overseas, in China or Japan or Europe.

And when you just break it down, it always comes back to the revenue.

Production companies are worried more about will this film make money and make the money back that we spent, opposed to just putting diverse voices out there and having different types of stories told.

So that's why we just take over the independent market.

Rick:

Yeah.

Are there one or two films from last year that you folks made that you're particularly proud of, that you wanna summarize?

Shameka Sawyer:

Sure, so this previous season, we had a short film called She Speaks Not.

It's about domestic violence.

It's on YouTube and it's at 50,000 views right now.

Rick:

I watched that one.

I was impressed with it.

And you did the photography for that.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, I did.

She came with a vision, but like most new filmmakers, you have to walk them through the process, right?

I just sat with her and we figured out some creative ways to make the film come to life the way that she wanted it to.

And it worked.

Rick:

I noticed that in the scene between the husband and wife, it was all very kind of close and claustrophobic.

Was that on purpose?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, it was.

It was to give that sense of the young woman, how she felt.

Like she felt like there was no way out, that she was contained.

If you notice, he was always like hovering over her if she was sitting down, you know?

So it was making him have that big figure of keeping her contained.

So yeah, that was on purpose.

Rick:

And did that kind of arise between you and the filmmaker?

Shameka Sawyer:

That was actually her idea.

She wanted to make sure that the audience got a sense of how women in those types of situations feel.

They feel like they're closed in, they're trapped, they can't move.

A lot of the photography was like that as well, with his hands over her mouth and trying to keep her quiet, trying to take her voice.

Rick:

There's so much that you can put in, you know, with the camera and the shots that affect the story.

Shameka Sawyer:

Right.

Different camera angles or lighting, music.

Music is very important.

Music sets some emotional tone to a piece and a lot of people don't think about it, they just think, oh, it's just some music.

No, it actually can add happiness, sadness, anxiety, you know, to a scene that normally without music wouldn't have much leverage.

Rick:

Yeah.

Well, and I noticed that many of the films, the music was done by friends of the people.

Shameka Sawyer:

Right.

So we try to keep things as simple as possible.

We don't have a huge budget.

At most, we're working off of our own money.

So it's easier if we use friends or family who create music and give us permission, opposed to trying to license a track because it can be very expensive to do that.

And also too, this gives an opportunity for local musicians to get some recognition as well.

So it works out both ways.

There's another film by Law by Love that was created by Angel Hogan.

This short documentary was about a man who witnessed his mother have a drug overdose.

She passed away.

His father passed away when he was a baby.

And he was on his journey to figure out who he was because he is biracial.

So he did a DNA test and we talked about his past, how that has an effect on what's currently happening now and what he learned from a DNA test and how does he feel about it.

I'm tempted to, but it was very deep, his story.

And some of these stories, you just wonder, especially when it's a documentary, because it's true, it's non-fiction.

You just wonder how people have the strength and tenacity to keep going.

I think it's a story of triumph when you can say, yes, this was my story, but today I have a different story.

And I'm gonna talk to you about how I actually made it from there to here.

Rick:

And people can see that at 5shorts.org if they want to.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, it's on the website.

And we have a YouTube channel as well.

So either way, you can watch them.

Rick:

Yeah.

And you've just accepted your participants for this year.

Yes.

What did you look for and how did you decide?

Shameka Sawyer:

It's a hard task and I couldn't accept everyone.

At first, I was just going to do five this year.

And then I got some really strong entries for 10.

So we're going to do 10 again.

What I look for is a compelling script or story synopsis, something that grabs the attention that I think would resonate with the audience.

And also, is it doable?

So some people want to shoot in the Bahamas.

You know, a coming of age story in the Bahamas, it's not going to happen.

Or I don't typically accept shorts that have a lot of gun violence.

I think the most violence that we have shown is the she speaks not, and that was simulated violence, it wasn't actual.

Or if it's like too adult as well, we've had some interesting submissions that was a little beyond our market because our films after the premiere, they air on Philly Cam.

So, you know, local stations here on Comcast and Verizon.

And I want them to play on television because people like to watch them on television.

But if it's too graphic, it's not going to be accepted.

So yeah, I try to stray away from those types of stories.

Rick:

Yeah, I was wondering how relevant public access TV is in the age of YouTube.

Shameka Sawyer:

Right.

That's a good question.

I think it's beneficial for those of us who are looking for the opportunity to produce something that can actually be watched on a television screen.

Individuals like the fact that they can say that my project is actually on television.

We know anyone can get on YouTube, but not anyone can get on television.

So yeah, I think that's beneficial.

Rick:

Yeah.

And so, you know, we have G-Town radio here in Germantown.

And I mean, they stream it on the internet.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes.

Rick:

But the reason that they broadcast it because a lot of people don't have computers.

Shameka Sawyer:

That's a good point.

Rick:

Or internet service.

So I thought that Philly Cam gets those people also.

Shameka Sawyer:

They do.

And also, you know, they have their radio station as well.

So yeah, it makes sense.

Rick:

So if I were starting as a participant, what should I expect?

Shameka Sawyer:

To work very hard, but to enjoy yourself while you're doing it.

There are a lot of moving pieces with this.

Like, you know, you have your scripts, but I work with you to make sure that it's formatted correctly and that you understand the elements of telling a story from beginning, middle to end, because some people don't get that part.

Sometimes you just have a really long middle.

It's just like, that's not going to work.

Then from there, we teach people about directing.

Like, how do you direct a scene?

How do you slate a clip?

Who do you need as crew on your team?

How to understand sound and how to use sound?

Lighting, how important lighting is, what's the difference between a fluorescent light bulb and an LED light bulb?

Which one should you use?

From there, setting up your production schedule and making sure that your schedule is accommodating to your actors, first and foremost, and then your crew.

Making sure you have the right documents signed, like release forms for music, for actors, for locations.

All of that stuff.

And then when we go to shoot, making sure that filmmakers understand if you're not paying your actors, or even if you are, you should always provide some type of refreshments because it's important to keep your people hydrated and energized.

So that stuff.

Then from that, we go to editing, where we sit down at the computer and we go through clips and we figure out what works, what doesn't work.

And listening to sound and figuring out color grading, how we want the scene to look, what mood are we going for for this scene and how can we portray that with what we have.

Once we finish that, then we go to the red carpet premiere screening, where I take care of all the marketing, take care of getting the location, I take care of putting all the films together to be shown, I take care of all the sponsors and refreshments and everything so the filmmakers don't have to worry about doing that on their own.

All they have to do is get ready to come to the premiere screening and hopefully some do share with their community and say, hey guys, come out and see it.

And then after that, I submit it to Philly Cam.

So many of the things if you were doing this on your own, it could be very overwhelming trying to make all of that happen.

So I do my best to make sure that everyone, number one, feels like they're not alone and that they can ask me anything that they would like.

And also too, to know that you always will have someone with you to help you through the process.

And it's worked.

It's been working since 2014.

Rick:

Yeah.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah.

Rick:

So I'd be coming once a week on an evening for six months.

Is that right?

Shameka Sawyer:

For film is every other week, but in between those times of the meetings, I'm available to sit with you one-on-one or, you know, we can talk via phone or we can do FaceTime or whatever you want to do.

Rick:

And do you hear from them a lot?

Shameka Sawyer:

I do.

From everywhere, from Instagram to Facebook, text message, phone call.

But it's okay, because I totally understand.

You want to put your best product out there.

Rick:

So you came to filmmaking in your thirties.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes.

Rick:

Could you talk a little about your life before that and how you came to filmmaking?

Shameka Sawyer:

Sure.

So before that, it was a lot of just working jobs.

I decided at age 30 to go back to school.

So I went to CCP.

Rick:

Community College of Philadelphia.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yep.

And I was always interested in theater and acting.

So that was my major there.

And graduated, was able to get into Penn.

And while I was at Penn, I took some film, well, video classes for electives.

And I really enjoyed that process of just telling stories visually.

I can write, but I don't prefer to write.

I would rather show.

I would rather like create scenes and show things.

So I found that to be very appealing to me.

So I decided to go that route.

When I graduated Penn, my oldest brother had passed away like the year before to cancer.

So I was at this point where a lot of depression because I missed my brother.

Rick:

You had a production company with him.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, live footage, 215.

And even with that, we would focus more on music and we were moving towards video.

And then we started to marry the two, like we would interview music producers and stuff like that on video.

Yeah, after he passed, I was not in a great place mentally because we did a lot together.

So I was looking for that opportunity to get back into the creative scene.

And yeah, that's when I reached out to other filmmakers and said, hey, let's just make some films.

So it kind of helped me out of that depression because I felt like I'm back to doing what he and I used to do.

So it felt really good.

Rick:

Well, so starting community college at age 30, what was that like?

Shameka Sawyer:

Oh, very intimidating at first.

Once you're an adult student, a non-traditional student, you feel like you're just going to stick out in the classroom and you'll be in there with a bunch of 19 and 21 year olds, which at Community College of Philadelphia was different.

There were a lot of adult students there, but at Penn is where I stuck out, like a sore thumb.

I was like, okay.

But yeah, it wasn't as bad as I thought.

Initially, I wanted to just go to classes and come home and do my work and that's it.

But I ended up getting involved with the Honor Society there, Phi Theta Kappa.

And then I was on their leadership team.

And it made me be more active at the college.

So that was a great experience.

I wouldn't change it for the world.

And very cost effective.

Meaning that classes are not as expensive if I had just said, let me just go to Penn and not do Community College of Philadelphia first.

Their classes are very affordable and their instructors, many of them teach at St.

Joe's, Temple, Penn.

So you're still getting a quality education for a fraction of the price.

And then it too enabled me to be able to apply and get into Penn.

You know, I was originally supposed to go to Westchester.

I won a full ride scholarship to Westchester.

But Penn said yes, and I was just like, it's Penn.

So I ended up getting a scholarship for Penn too, which was really helpful.

Rick:

Wow.

And did you make some connections there with people that you didn't expect to connect with?

Shameka Sawyer:

You know what, at Penn, I was a part of a theater production, so I made some connections there, but I wasn't really active at Penn.

I guess because I just wasn't used to the environment of Penn.

Most of the time, I was the oldest person in the classroom.

So there's that dynamic.

But I did meet a couple of young people who were very nice to me.

Rick:

Well, good for you for doing it.

Shameka Sawyer:

Thank you.

Thank you.

It was a challenge, but what do I have to lose, right?

Just go for it.

Rick:

Yeah.

Well, and you have some kids?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes.

Rick:

And you were being a mom throughout all of that?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes.

It's still hard now to balance doing this project and being there for my children because a lot of the filming and classes are during the evening and this is when everyone is home.

So I have to make choices based on how much time I'm giving to my family and then how much time I need to give to this project.

You have to make hard decisions of whether, you know, do I go back to school night or do I move this class?

You know, and I choose back to school night because when you get older, I want them to say, yeah, you're fair for me.

Not that, oh, you were always putting something else over me.

So I try to do my best to accommodate family first.

Rick:

So not a lot of sitting around.

Shameka Sawyer:

No, no.

I've been to LA twice this summer.

That was hard.

I was working on a production for a stage play.

They were accepted into a festival in California and they wanted to record some documentary footage of that.

So I was there for like a week and it was a lot of face timing with my kids.

I miss you.

And I'll be there soon.

But luckily, you know, this happened in the summertime.

So I didn't have to worry about missing anything happening with their school.

So yeah, it worked out.

Rick:

Well, I was really struck by all of the different stages that you just summarized.

I wonder if you could just take us through the steps and maybe tell a story or two along the way of different participants and what they came up against.

Shameka Sawyer:

So thinking of development, right now, I have an individual.

This is her first film.

And even though there are supporting documents to help you format your film and break it down into a three act structure, she's not feeling confident enough in her work to do so.

So I have to work with her one on one.

Rick:

That's like she sends you a draft of something and you say, how about more like this, more like that.

Shameka Sawyer:

Right.

So I read the draft.

I give her feedback.

And for the most part, she's dead on point.

But it's just me and that reassurance that yes, you're actually doing this correctly.

Rick:

What's her story about?

Shameka Sawyer:

Her story is about sexual abuse.

Yeah.

But it's not told in a graphic way.

It's personal to her because this is something that she actually went through and she always wanted to tell the story, but she didn't want to talk about it.

She would rather do a film about it.

That's the only one for development right now.

And then you go into casting.

This is where you pick your actors.

Picking actors is funny because you really don't get to know an actor until you do what's called a table read.

Table read is when all the actors get together with the producer and the director and read through the script as the character.

When the actor feels like they have the part, you start to see who they really are.

And sometimes personalities may not mix very well.

So I've had a few filmmakers figure that out, that when they went to do table reads, that this person was very obnoxious, or just really don't like their attitude, but I don't know what to do.

I guess I should just keep them.

No, don't keep them.

Because all of that will translate on camera in your film that there is an issue.

It shows on your actor's face and it will also show when you're directing them how much you may not really like them.

So best case scenario, let's figure out if there's a good replacement.

So when we do casting, I always advise filmmakers, make sure you cast two to three people for that role in your head.

So that way if you have to switch out, then you have a replacement right on hold.

You don't have to actually go out and do another casting call.

You already have another person in mind.

It makes it a lot faster.

Rick:

How do you actually get actors to show up for these?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, so we put out casting calls on like film.org.

That's the Greater Philadelphia Film Office.

Instagram, Facebook, email, whatever resources we have available to reach out to aspiring actors.

I have a meetup group called Philadelphia Creatives Connect, a group of over 3,000 individuals who are interested in the creative field.

So we reach out to them as well.

And we normally have really good turnouts to our casting calls.

And then some filmmakers know actors, so they'll have them come in and read just to make sure they fit the part.

So it's a little of everything.

Rick:

So if that was me as the participant, I'd be sitting in a room with you and other actors.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes.

So we do what's called a group casting call.

So all of the filmmakers come together and the actors come audition, and we all watch these actors.

I think it's easier that way because we're dealing with 10 filmmakers.

So doing 10 different castings would be like crazy.

And it actually works.

Some actors are cast in more than one film, but it's always up to the actor to determine if they want to do a certain film and if another film wants them, if they can accommodate both.

We always leave it up to the actor.

Because sometimes filmmakers are like, I definitely am.

I'm like, yeah, but they have a life.

And we're not really paying people per se.

So you have to give them the option because they're actually doing you a favor.

So yeah.

Rick:

And do you think that your participants usually make good choices?

Shameka Sawyer:

For the most part, I think they have a clear idea of who the character is.

And when you have that, when someone comes into an audition for that character, it's not too hard to figure out if they would play that role as well as you would like them to.

Because someone can have the look, right?

Oh, he would be great.

And then you hear them read the role.

Never mind, not great.

It could be not the right voice or not the right something.

Just didn't feel it.

So, but for the most part, they do pretty well.

We have had a time where someone booked an actor on their own.

And when we went to shoot, the actor didn't show up.

So I had to call in someone that I knew that was actor.

And luckily, she was available to come in and fill in for the part.

Otherwise, if that happens and you don't have a replacement, that means all those people came to your location and now they have to go home and it was a waste of time.

So I always, too, try to make sure I have some actors on call just in case if something goes wrong.

So that's casting actors.

Rick:

And finding crew.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, finding crew.

So luckily, I have my own equipment that I use.

So filmmakers have a choice.

If you know someone who does video production, you can use them.

If you do not, then you don't have the stress of trying to find people who do so because I do it.

So I'll come in and I'll shoot with my crew.

I have others that are on board that will do sound, lighting, whatever.

So we'll come and we'll shoot the whole thing for you.

And at that point, people feel like it's good to know that I don't have to go out and find my own crew that you'll provide it.

Rick:

So out of last year's ten films, how many did you shoot?

Shameka Sawyer:

I shot one, two, three, four, five.

I want to say seven.

I think it was only three that didn't use me.

No, six.

It was four that didn't use me.

Rick:

Okay, that's a lot of time.

Shameka Sawyer:

But it's fun.

I do try to make sure that if I'm the person that's going to be handling your crew, that we have a solid schedule and that you make sure your actors are well rehearsed prior to us getting there to shoot, because it's the worst when you have actors who didn't study their lines and now every five minutes you're stopping because they're, what's the line?

What should I do?

So I tell them, the key is rehearse your actors.

I don't care if it's over the phone.

We can do a lot these days.

We don't have to all be in the same room, but make sure you have your rehearsals with your actors.

Make sure that they know their lines.

That's the hardest part.

Once you have that lockdown, everything else can run smoothly.

Rick:

And how do they do on that score?

Shameka Sawyer:

I think if you have that type of personality where you just always organize and have all your ducks in a row, you do pretty well.

For those who are procrastinators, like I am, we're like last minute people.

It's just like, I thought we had rehearsals.

I thought I had more time.

So with those people, what I'll do is I'll schedule an hour before the crew is supposed to get there.

We'll go through lines and make sure you understand where you should move on set and stuff like that.

Great thing with film is that you can always stop, cut, rearrange things or talk to people about what they're doing right or wrong, then go back to filming.

Rick:

Well, so there you are as the camera person.

But you're also seeing, like you know very well what needs to happen.

In many cases more so than the person.

Do you keep your lips sealed and let them make their mistakes or do you kind of step in?

Shameka Sawyer:

Oh, I let them make their mistakes.

Because that's the only way you will really learn.

And that is the point of this project, is for you to actually learn how to do this.

And a lot of it is hands on.

If it's something that's going terribly wrong and the filmmaker's not saying anything, then yeah, I will step in.

But normally I will let them make a decision, we'll shoot it and then we'll watch it on playback.

And they'll say, oh, I see that this doesn't work.

And so it gives them the idea to first learn from the mistake and to figure out how to fix it.

I'm always there to help them fix it, but I like for them to figure it out.

Rick:

I guess that's a benefit of modern equipment, is that you can shoot a scene and then look at it.

Shameka Sawyer:

Right.

Rick:

And is that what you typically do?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, I do.

Because, you know, it's a lot of new filmmakers.

So even though we go through framing and understanding angles and all that great stuff, we can talk about it all day.

But you won't really get it until you do it, until you see it.

And then you're like, oh, I see.

Like the framing is off.

It's too much blank space on this side and it looks too jumbled here.

So maybe we should move some stuff around or pick a different location or whatever.

So yeah, it's very beneficial for filmmakers just to really get hands on and just do it.

Rick:

Can you think of a specific story of when you saw a light bulb really go off for a student in that kind of situation?

Shameka Sawyer:

Oh, I can tell you one.

I have a funny one.

I wasn't actually shooting this when I did the edit.

And this was probably season three.

The light reflector.

So you know those light reflectors.

So if you don't want the light to be too harsh on your subject, you can have it hit the reflector and then bounce light, right?

The light reflector was in the shot.

Beautiful shot.

But we couldn't use it because I'm like, no one saw the light reflector.

That's one.

And the famous boom mic, when it dips into the frame, or the shadow was on the wall in the back.

Yeah, those things are hilarious.

But it teaches people, when they see it like, oh my goodness, we may have to reshoot that.

Yes, that's number one.

Number two, now you're remembered to look for the shadow of the boom mic.

Make sure it's not dipping into your shot because that's the most weird thing to see if you're watching this scene.

And what's that thing dipping down every now and again?

So it's funny, we laugh about it, but they actually learn like, okay, I got you.

I understand now.

Besides just saying action and watching the actors, I have to pay attention to everything.

And you do.

Rick:

So then production planning.

Shameka Sawyer:

So production planning consists of creating a schedule that works for these key elements.

The actors, number one, your crew, your location, and your personal life.

Right?

Because you can't leave that part out.

You have to be really detail-oriented with these things because we have what's called call sheets where you would mark down what scene you're shooting, the location, the actors that's needed there, the crew that's needed there, wardrobe that's needed for the scene, props that's needed for the scene.

You need to make sure that all of them work together.

Probably the hardest thing because when you're not paying actors, you're not at the top of the priority list.

So you really have to work around their schedule.

And I had a filmmaker who ran into a problem where her main two actors were just not available on the same day.

So she had to cheat the scene.

She shot one part of the scene in the store with one actor and then had her talking to the other actor on the phone.

So then another day she shot that scene somewhere else.

So you have to get really creative sometimes when it comes to shooting the scene if everyone isn't able to meet at the same time.

And that may include changing your actual script because that's what she had to do.

She had them in a dialogue where they were together, it wasn't working so she had to change it to make it seem like they were together but just at different locations.

He was outside and she was inside.

So, and it worked.

Rick:

And people have to go find their own props and their costumes.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, the Thrift Store is our friend.

It's one of the best places to go.

What's your favorite?

I don't know.

I've been to so many.

I don't know.

It's just, you know, if one place doesn't have it, you go to the next.

There's one that's right there on Eastern Road.

Rick:

Glenside.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, it's probably one of my favorites.

Rick:

So, location scouting.

Shameka Sawyer:

Oh, yeah.

That little monster.

Location scouting.

So, what I've learned is if you're looking for a coffee shop or a restaurant, it's better to approach places that are privately owned opposed to chain restaurants.

Chain restaurants and coffee shops, you have to make sure you have permits.

You have to get insurance.

You have to sometimes pay to rent the place.

So, we're working on no budget.

So, for those places that are privately owned, they're more willing to let you come in and shoot as long as you take a shot of their signage and put it in your film.

You know, it's a promotion, right?

Rick:

I noticed that in one of the films, that it started with a shot of the restaurant.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, so that's why.

And we offer that too, because you're doing us a huge favor.

The least we can do is give you a shout out in the film by putting your signage in there.

Another thing with location scouting, once you secure the location, it's smart to go there again after you talk to them.

Look at where all your outlets are.

Look at the lighting.

Go there around the time you're planning to shoot to see what the atmosphere is like, because all of that is going to play a part in your film.

Sometimes places can have background noise that you were not expecting.

Like one place we shot it had this little refrigerator, but it was very loud, very loud.

And so if that's the case, you have to ask, is it okay if I unplug this for a couple of minutes while I get this shot?

Most places will say yes.

If they say no, then you may want to rethink where you're shooting.

Can you get further away from the refrigerator or what can you do?

But you always want to go out prior to shooting just to make sure and take pictures of it too.

Because pictures come into play when you are storyboarding and blocking your scene.

So storyboarding is when you are drawing out the types of shots you want to get, whether it's a close up shot or establishing shot, wide shot or a mid-range shot.

So you're drawing it out.

And if you have pictures of the space, it's easier for you to figure out where your actors should stand and where they should be, opposed to figuring that out the day of at the shoot because it takes time away from your actual shoot.

And then blocking as well, that's how the actors are going to move and the cameras are going to move around in the scene.

So if you have what's called a tracking shot, when the camera is following the actor, you need to make sure that the space is clear enough that no one falls over and gets hurt or is long enough for you to actually do a tracking shot, because a tracking shot doesn't look good if you're taking five steps.

It's not worth it.

So just figuring out those little cinematic details is really good to just go there beforehand and really look at the space from a technical perspective.

Rick:

That seems like a huge part of the planning out, is you plan every shot, pretty much?

Shameka Sawyer:

If you can.

Now, I will say this, sometimes you will have it all planned out with story word and what's called a shot list that says make sure this first shot is a wide shot, second shot is a medium shot.

When someone says this line, I need that to be a close up type shot on X, Y, Z.

You can have all that planned out, get there and then decide to change it.

It happens.

When you see it in playback, that's not working for me.

Let's just redo this.

But the key is to pretty much have a plan of how you want to shoot this piece.

Rick:

So a participant will give you a 20 page list of their shots that they're going to do.

Shameka Sawyer:

Normally no.

Normally we sit together and we go through it.

Rick:

Yeah.

Shameka Sawyer:

Because sometimes they're not sure of what to look for.

All of us have watched television, have gone to the movies, but we're not looking at it from a technical perspective.

Oh, this was awesome.

What was awesome about it?

All the special effects, but no one's saying, oh, that close up tight shot.

The ring and the Lord of the Rings made such a big difference.

Nobody's talking like that.

So what happens is when you're new to this, you have to learn to look for these things.

So I always tell people to watch a film that they really enjoy, but don't watch it for entertainment this time.

Watch it to see how the camera is moving.

Watch it to see what the lighting is like, what the color grading is like.

Is it mostly dull or is it vibrant colors?

You know, figuring out why you like that film so much.

The acting is a huge part of it, but there's other elements that go with the acting to make a film.

Phenomenal.

Rick:

Can you think of an example of working with a specific participant on a specific scene and kind of what they thought, what you suggested?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, so I'll choose last season, that would be Ether, which is like a love story by Tia Whitfield.

And we were trying to figure out this ending shot.

It's like a tracking shot, but the actor was still, so the camera was moving around to come in front of the actor's face.

So we're trying to figure it out, and she wanted me to use a slider, and I have a slider, but it turns out what she really wanted was that tracking shot.

So I did both.

I did slider, then I did the tracking shot.

Oh, okay, that's what I want.

I want that shot.

If you're trying to draw the audience into a character, you usually have to use a moving camera and not a slider.

You have to move and walk with the camera to get that effect.

So yeah, she learned that lesson from that one.

Rick:

That's interesting.

If you want to draw the audience into a character, you move the camera.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, they use that too in a lot of the footage that's captured for the news.

They don't zoom.

They move into the shot.

And you can tell the difference.

It's weird, but there's a huge difference.

A zoom doesn't seem natural.

But if somebody's walking in, it feels like you're walking in with them.

Yeah, yeah.

Rick:

Directing.

To what extent did the people get involved in telling the actor, I want it more this way?

Shameka Sawyer:

They had full control over it.

They're the director.

They can ask me any questions or what do you think, but I don't overstep that boundary because this is your film, so I want you to understand how to talk to your actors and how to get what you want from them.

And sometimes it's as quick as, hey guys, let's take a five-minute break and talk to your actor about the character and what you see and what you feel.

I've had some filmmakers will actually get in there and practice out the scene to show the actors, like, this is what I want you to do.

I want you to move like this.

I want you to do this, which is really beneficial for the filmmakers and the actors.

For the filmmakers, it gives them the opportunity to really practice the skill of being clear and concise about what you want from someone without thinking that you have to hold back or just accept something, that you can actually say, no, this is what I want.

This is how I want you to do it.

And you can do it in a way where everyone is still friends at the end of the day.

You know, and for the actors, it teaches them how to understand and receive direction.

Because sometimes you will get some actors who feel like, I've been doing this for a while, I already know what to do.

But it's like, this is a different film and you are not the director.

So you guys have to work together to make this happen.

So it starts to build that relationship of knowing how to work together to come to a common goal that works for everyone.

Rick:

So you're really coaching people on interpersonal skills in a lot of ways.

Shameka Sawyer:

Pretty much, yes.

Because I've had some filmmakers that would get very upset about an actor not following direction.

So I would say, okay, let's take a break.

Now I pull them to the side and say, hey, listen, if when you're talking to them about it and they're not understanding, show them.

Because sometimes people are visual learners.

It's just easier for them to see what you want.

And then they can get through it.

It's like, oh, okay, is that okay?

Can I do it?

Sure, as your friend, you can do what you want.

But the key is happy actor makes good film.

You do not want to upset your actor because it will be all in their face while they're shooting.

Don't do that.

Make them feel good.

Tell them, yes, that was great, good choice, but maybe we can do it this way or maybe we can try this.

Just don't be condescending or treating actors like they don't matter.

They matter.

They're a huge part of your film.

Rick:

Gosh, there's just so much to it.

And you're so all over it.

You've got the insights for everything.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, I've been doing it for a while.

Rick:

Okay, so I have all this footage that we've shot and it's time for editing.

So is there some good software?

Shameka Sawyer:

I use Adobe Premiere.

Rick:

Can your participants use your version of that or do they have to get their own?

Shameka Sawyer:

So normally for editing, I do the edit just because it will take another six months to teach them the actual editing process from scratch.

Like that's a whole other interesting situation because you know, you have your clips, but then you have sound, then you may have multiple cameras, then you have color grading.

So I'll do the editing, but they sit with me so they can see the process and how tedious it is.

Like one film, there was this guitar run and he played the run different each time, but we're cutting back and forth and the sound is not matching up.

He did it again in another clip that we didn't use, but it sounded better, so we had to match it, try to match it to his hand and use that sound clip.

So things like that can be interesting and time consuming trying to teach someone, but there are places that will actually teach how to edit films.

And I know Philly Cam is one place, and then you have Community College of Philadelphia, or you can use YouTube, or you can use Adobe website itself.

They have tutorials on there as well.

Yeah.

Rick:

So you're doing plays this year as well as films.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes, this is the first year.

I figured since we're doing film, film is going pretty well.

Why not try plays?

Let's see what happens.

And I do have another individual helping me out with plays.

She writes plays.

I have never written a play, so she has better insight on that and of developing the script and getting it ready for the stage.

So this is our first year and five participants, and it's going really well.

We meet every week.

And these are new playwrights who never wrote a play before.

So I try to coach them with just really getting to the meat of the story and focusing on that.

People just had a lot of stuff in their script that didn't need to be there.

Didn't add to the story, didn't take away from the story.

You know, as people, we always want to tell everything, include all the details, but let's just get to the point.

Let's start at the point and let's end on a note where your audience will walk away with whatever it is you want them to walk away with.

Rick:

So what do you see in your future?

What kind of dreams, goals do you have?

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, so I do eventually want to shoot a feature-lift of my own.

Eventually I get there, probably sometime next year, in the development phase of working on a documentary about the women's movement, the feminist movement and the womanist movement.

Rick:

I haven't heard of the womanist movement.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yeah, so the womanist movement was created by Alice Walker.

She felt as though the feminist movement did not focus enough on the issues that women of color were facing.

So she coined the term womanist.

And I was just interested in learning, in today's society, how does both of these groups play out?

And if there's a huge separation, how do we mend that?

Because we're all fighting the same fight, so how can we get past those aspects and really come together and do something?

Rick:

That really came up in the Women's March in Philadelphia.

Shameka Sawyer:

Yes.

It really made me interested just to have that conversation, to bring everyone to the table and say, well, let's figure out what's happening and how can we diffuse some of the stereotypes.

Because I think there's not enough discussion about...

just discussion.

I think there's one side says, well, this is my thoughts, and the other side says, these are my thoughts.

And no one's coming to the table and saying, well, hey, this is why I feel this way.

And maybe if X, Y, Z could happen, then maybe we could make things work a little bit better.

Rick:

Yeah, well, I'd like to see that documentary.

Shameka Sawyer:

I will have to keep you updated about that.

Rick:

So this is just a fantastic project that you're doing.

With your time and energy, any possibility of outside funding?

Shameka Sawyer:

I would love outside.

So I'm currently...

I just received a fiscal sponsorship from the Culture Trust of Philadelphia, which is a part of CultureWorks.

So now that I have fiscal sponsorship, I'm able to write grants and try to gain some funding, because eventually I would like to have a team, because it's a lot on me, and I'm very thankful for those who do volunteer their time to help with this project.

But I would really love to pay people, because I really believe in if someone is giving their time, you should get something in return.

So this year, I'm working on learning how to write grants and going after a few, and hopefully I can secure some funding.

It will make things a lot easier.

Rick:

And do you have a day job at the same time as all of this?

Shameka Sawyer:

I did.

I did, and I left back in January to pursue this full time.

So I had some savings, and I was like, well, this is the year, right?

Let me see where this goes.

It is going.

It could be going better.

But I appreciate this part of the process, because it's teaching me to be more creative as I figure out how to keep this project going.

So I love doing this full time, but I think eventually if things don't pick up sooner, I'll be back to work.

But yeah, right now I'm just doing this full time.

Rick:

And if people want to find out when the screening is, when and where to see the plays and films.

Shameka Sawyer:

So for the plays, they will be put up in December, December 18th at Venice Island.

All the information will be on the website, 5shorts.org.

That's the number 5, the word shorts.org.

For the film screenings, they normally happen around March, April of the next year.

So in 2020, March or April, which you can also check out our website for those as well.

And they're also at Venice Island.

Why?

Because I love that place.

It is beautiful.

We do have a mailing list, so you can sign up for our mailing list on the website to keep up to date about what's happening with the projects and to actually get an email when we are marketing and promoting those events.

Rick:

Anything else floating around that you'd like to talk about or say?

Shameka Sawyer:

I think we covered it all.

Yeah, this is really good.

Rick:

Great.

Shameka Sawyer:

I really appreciate that.

Rick:

Well, my pleasure.

I think it's so interesting.

For more about Shameka Sawyer and the Five Shorts Project, see the show notes or go to our website, nwphillypodcast.net.

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I'm Rick Mohr.

Thanks for listening.

See you next time for more stories from Northwest Philly neighbors.